Thursday Evening 24 April 1952

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
(Hall): ‘Good evening.’
To begin with I have a message from Mrs Veenkamp.
She used to always sit there.
Forty-eight years old.
She has received the spiritual wings.
(Hall): ‘Oh dear.’
Perforation of the stomach and peritonitis: operation successful and the patient gone.
But she is ‘flying’ now.
I was to say hello to everyone.
She says: ‘Also send along a few.’
But then in any case she is ...
(Someone says something.)
What did you say, madam?
What did you say?
(Lady in the hall): ‘She managed it.’
She managed it, yes; the prelude by Chopin.
Nice journey, with spiritual wings.
I have just one note lying here this evening, ladies and gentlemen.
I hope that you ask the questions clearly, then we can ...
I have just one note now, you should try to checkmate me this evening.
But then you must all try to ask me questions as quickly as possible; and then I will try to pass them on as quickly as possible after each other.
And then you can fly.
I hope that those questions fly through the whole universe.
Fly, don’t you agree?
But just look for yourself.
I am here: “The undersigned, J.J.Grouw ...”
From who is this note?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘From me.’
Sir, you do not have such a nice letter there.
“ ...has a really terrible fear, neurosis, of death.”
Have you read our books?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘No, sir.’
Sir, then I have twenty books for you which will take death away from you.
If you want to be rid of that neurosis then begin immediately with ‘A View into the Hereafter.’
You would be even better to take ‘Jeus of Mother Crisje’, if they are there now, because in them ...
I was eleven years old and then my father passed on - and I always saw ‘behind the coffin’ - and when he was buried then he walked with me behind his own corpse.
Then you will suddenly be cured, then you will suddenly be rid of the Grim Reaper.
It will cost you ten cents, sir, there (in the break people could lend books on the spot from the library of the society), and you will be rid of the Grim Reaper.
But that is not too expensive, is it?
And the Grim Reaper will irrevocably lose his crown‚ if you read that.
Quickly take a few books with you, sir, then you will be rid of that neurosis.
But, there were more people: ‘I am afraid, afraid, afraid.’
And then you can give them a hundred thousand books, sir, and then it will still not help.
That is also a state once again, which lies deeper.
That is not in the day consciousness just like that. ‘I am afraid of death’.
Usually there is something in that, by means of which the human being was killed in a horrible way in a previous state, life, and that is why there is that fear of death ...
And then you read that, you read that, and then that fear does not go away.
For example, we have people who do not dare to walk in the street; they were irrevocably killed in a road accident or whatever.
We have someone here amongst us who cannot sit alone in a small house, a closed-off space, then she becomes afraid, then things almost burst.
That soul - I looked into that life, and I saw it - she was burnt alive.
That fear, you come back with that, you come back with that event.
Doctors and thousands of things cannot help that personality, or you must put her in that cubby-hole again, and now nothing will happen; then it will be gone for the first time.
You cannot avoid that!
So you can start to read now, but whether it will help you ...
But in any case you will get a very different viewpoint anyway.
And are you incurably ill?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Yes.’
Sir, if you die, just yearn for death, just long, just let that death come: you will not die, you will continue yonder, you will get ‘wings’, and you will live consciously there.
Perhaps you will return to the earth, you will get a new life: that is the reincarnation, if you can accept that.
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Yes, I know that.’
Do you already know that?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Yes ...’
Well, sir, but then the Grim Reaper must also be known to you.
If you know and accept reincarnation, then it is no longer death, is it?
And there is still that fear?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Yes yes.’
Yes, you should play a lovely game of cards with him.
You must go and play draughts with him.
But be careful that he never wins.
And the more you can lie to him, sir ... a lot of extra cards, a lot of hearts and a lot of clubs in your coat, then death will always lose.
But he is not death, you know, he is a mother.
I got a painting, a plate, a porcelain plate, recently; if you see that now, then you will say: ‘That is now the Grim Reaper, that is death.’
And then a wonderful apparition is standing there, a spiritual apparition as a mother.
She is floating.
You all look though that apparition, it has been painted in such a rarefied way.
And there is an old man sitting there, he is sitting there, and then that mother points with her staff - the staff is a law, evolution is a staff, is a law - and then she points to that life book and says: ‘Today it is your time.’
But there is an apple lying there, and there is life, and a flower - so he goes through life - and there is a girl sitting next to that, so he is reincarnated as a girl.
That is called motherhood.
On a plate like that.
Incredibly beautiful.
I have an idea, ladies and gentlemen, for the new season, those new plates ...
There are some amongst them which I do not wish to lose for the world, or it would have to be necessary, because they were emphatically painted for the ‘Cosmology.
So if a rich person comes there soon then we must be able to make a book of that.
Mustn’t we, madam?
For example, a series of those plates. They have all been photographed, but then in black and white, then they are not so expensive.
Because if you have all of them around you, well, a radiance comes from them, a power; about seven, eight.
If we still have any breath left in the new season I will try ...(inaudible).
“So,” sir says, “it can happen every day: I am in a very bad and miserable way.”
Wouldn’t you say so, sir?
‘And then that fear of death.’
Yes, sir, what should I give you for this?
Twenty books which remove the fear.
But it is possible, after reading, that you will still walk round with that fear.
And then it is a part of your subconscious.
Look, fear of death because of ignorance, that lives in the day consciousness.
A Protestant and a human being who knows nothing about these things, for that human being death is still death.
If you have a very religious person, a bible expert, he says: ‘Yes, we continue.
It says so in the bible’, if you get that out of it.
But the human being who really does not know the laws of life and death in life, for him death in day consciousness is also fear.
Now I am curious, if you start to read, whether that fear will disappear.
Mr Hartman can give you the books just now.
You can get them here.
You can also buy them on Sunday, if you come to Diligentia.
Even better, of course.
(Hall: noises of agreement.)
Then things will improve, sir.
Yes, sir, we do not lie here.
I want to sell a few books to you.
We are real hagglers, fair is fair.
Yes, fair is fair.
Oh well, if you start to read now then I hope that that fear of death will disappear.
Here the people are no longer afraid of death.
Death is evolution, conscious continuing in the astral world.
If you read ‘A View into the Hereafter’, ‘The Cycle of the Soul’, ‘Between Life and Death’, just now, then you will have ...
From one you pass into the other, sir.
When you have finished those twenty books, then I hope that that death will be gone.
And even if you have that fear as a psychological law in you ...
That means - what I explained a moment ago - that in a previous life a jungle inhabitant made soup from you, in a manner of speaking.
That can go back, sir, to the jungle, because a human being who comes there in the jungle and is taken hold of by a wild horde like that, and they eat him with relish on Sunday morning, that is certainly a shock.
And a perfectly ordinary death like that on the street does not penetrate the spiritual life like that as death by being burnt alive, or something there.
And that is really not nonsense.
I have had several people visiting me during that time, between 1930 and 1940, then I healed, and they were walking around with those same feelings.
Then she says: ‘Yes, I know everything’, she had also read, did theosophy, came to me for books, ‘and I am still not rid of it, sir.’
And that fear remained.
I say: ‘Just attune yourself to that, you now live in society.’
And then my master said: ‘There you have a case like that, people who were eaten by ants.’
They consciously ...
Look, if you have an accident here in the jungle or something, you are attacked, that is a shock for the moment.
But there are also people ...
How many different tortures does the human being not experience, and do they not apply to the person, to the human being, before that human being really dies?
And that torture, that fear endured ...
They rub the human being with syrup, and let him be eaten by ants.
They rub others with pitch, and set them on fire.
Those are things which go to the subconscious.
And you will not get rid of that either.
Can you feel the wonderful difference of the day conscious fear of death, the human being who does not know the laws, and also a fear which has purely to do with reincarnation, with your previous lives?
They are tremendous problems.
It can be immediately established from the human being, if you know a little about that, whether it is really reincarnation.
This is why I am really curious whether ...
You must now be able to enjoy that yourself if you know those laws.
Do you know about reincarnation?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Oh yes.’
If you absolutely accept reincarnation, death must have disappeared, and that fear must also dissolve.
And whether you are really sick now, or not sick, sir ...
We are pleased that we can go.
Not for those who remain behind, that is certainly no pleasure, we do laugh about that.
But we know after all that we will soon stand before ‘the coffin’, and we will go away, one first then the other, but we will see each other again; we continue, we live in a conscious world, that is the spiritual astral world.
For us there is no longer any death.
We have stuck the Grim Reaper and his pearls on our coat.
I have sold at least four thousand of them in the Spuistraat.
If you see my Grim Reaper, sir, he is as penniless, he walks in rags.
But for the world he is the Grim Reaper, that death, still as rich as I don’t know what, a king with a sceptre.
I laugh right in his face.
And if he has airs, then I go: Pfuh.
I say: ‘Just go away quickly.’
Do you feel, we always talk about that here.
Ladies and gentlemen, I am finished, I have nothing else.
Will we go skating, sir?
(To someone in the hall): It begins there: you?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘How do the transitions for the animal world, how do they take place?’
Sir, that happens according to the laws of Mother Nature, which Mother Nature has in her hands: on time.
Now you must start to think, we were talking recently about the spiritual world for the animals - that question has not been asked very often either - and then you will have a nice evening.
Where does the astral world live for the chicken, and the dog, and the fish?
Think about that.
So, you begin by asking: Where ...
What did you say?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘ ... the astral world for the chicken ...’
Just take your first question to begin with.
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘How do the transitions for the animal take place?’
In the normal way.
They can have an accident of course, just like the human being, but that has no significance for the animal world.
(Gentleman in the hall says something.)
It actually has no significance for the human being, but for the animal world not at all.
An accident in the street means nothing for the human being and for your whole life in society, sir.
Did you know that?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘By means of the deeper consciousness of the human being with regard to the animal.’
No, sir, you are completely off the mark.
Because the earthly life means nothing, sir, only love, and fatherhood and motherhood.
Everything which you are already ...
I said recently: Even if you are mayor of The Hague, and an admiral, sir, then what if you have no feeling for there?
That is all earthly, that all remains behind.
My master, Van Dyck said: ‘What am I as a painter?
Then what?
I have created murderers and thieves on earth, because if they can steal my art they do it.’
He says: ‘If I can convince one human being of the divine laws, I will have achieved more than in my life as an artist.’
Everything remains behind.
So for the animal world that is exactly the same.
We are still human, and we begin with the birth and we become a lawyer and a general and a doctor, and all those other things, but that is all earthly and remains earthly, and remains on earth, you can do nothing more there on the other side, nothing more.
Because what do you want there?
There are no longer any doctors needed there, no mathematicians, no artists, no longer any music, you play the first and the sixteenth violin yourself inside.
(To someone in the hall): What did you have?
(Gentleman in the hall): I must come back to that first conversation.
It was said that that fear originated because the soul had experienced something in the previous life.’
Not the soul, sir.
Not the soul.
The soul never experiences anything.
The soul only wakes you.
The soul does not experience any death, (but) the spiritual personality.
But the soul as a divine core takes you back to the Divine All.
But the soul never experiences misery, that is only your day conscious life of feeling.
Is that not real?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Yes.’
And now what?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘But now the question is still: which laws play a role then, that precisely that fear in this life must appear again?’
Because the human beings who went into the pot there with those cannibals, and who experienced a terrible death there and there and there, cannot get rid of that, or they must be able to experience the contrary.
And they also go into the pot and say: ‘Oh, it will not happen.
Just go home quickly, here is another piece of currant loaf and just say to mother that we have not done anything to you.’
Then that will be gone.
But that shock; that is a shock, sir, that is a tremendous reaction, it is quite something, if your legs are cut off, your legs are cut off, and you go in the soup pot.
Because just believe it that we were all cannibals.
We dried perhaps some two, three thousand of those black people (when these contact evenings were held from 1949 to 1952, the word ‘black’ was a common name to refer to someone with a dark skin colour), and sisters and brothers, delightfully like a smoked herring.
Yes, madam, you do not need to be shocked at all by this.
What is that life like there?
Just go into the jungle, sir, then you will also go into the pot.
And that man who does that, he will be faced with the facts one day.
You will get the shock, you will get to experience the inner reaction, as a white man, or a Westerner, or an Oriental, it does not matter.
But that man has to make amends for that cannibalism, doesn’t he?
But you are the one who has experienced that.
And that is not a normal death, sir, that was only a very deep torture, and you take that with you.
You will not get rid of it, or you must ...
By means of thousands and thousands of deaths again, transitions, that must gradually dissolve.
Now take for example a ...
You experience an inner shock, it does not matter for what; it keep you busy for years.
I will never forget ...
They say: You can write that off just like that.
But a human being can sometimes be angry at himself.
It was in 1936, then I wanted to go to Vienna, my wife’s father had passed on, I say: ‘Just go ahead.’
And I am still busy, it was in 1938, I am still busy with ‘The Origin of the Universe’.
I live nicely in the space.
And I get those cases, and I go to the station, I go and sit in the train, and I go to Utrecht.
And I was sitting there having a lovely look at the that train, I say to that man: ‘Where will the train come in?’
Then he says: ‘There.’
Fine, I will stick with that.
That man will know - won’t he? - and a station man like that.
I say: ‘Sir, do you know for certain?’
‘Yes, sir.’
Then I surrendered to that.
I should never have done it, I must look for myself.
I also got a beating like I don’t know what.
That train comes in there on the left, I see the Liftinck: gosh, what a power, isn’t it?
I am having a nice seat on that case and I look at that train, I say: man, what a piece of work it is, isn’t it?
Puff, puff, it stood there puffing, puffing, puffing.
And that thing starts to whistle there, and I look: my God, my train!
And I also want to get on that train with my case, but they caught me out.
I was furious.
I think: that will never happen to me again.
Sir, for two years, now and again I sat on that platform again, and that train goes past again, I never got on it.
I think: well.
The only thing, sir, in order to ... that ...
I dreamt that.
I reacted fiercely, because master Alcar says: ‘It is not bad, because now you also have both feet on the ground, because you would have gone to Vienna and it would have been no use to you.’
And it was no use to me.
He approved of it as it were, see, in order to release me from the universe, that had to happen with a shock.
But now and again: trains, trains, trains; that train drove off under my nose.
I think: man alive, I will go to Utrecht immediately and then I will do it again.
But two years later I did it again.
And I got a beating of course because I had been daydreaming.
I say to my wife: ‘Oh yes?’
Then she says ...
‘Then just ask where that train comes from.’
I think: I will not ask it again, I will have a good look myself.
And then that man says: ‘There, madam.’
But no, now he came here.
I say: ‘Fine.’
A train comes in, I have to pull her on there by force from the right.
Then she says: ‘But it is coming here.’
I say: ‘No, it is there.
We have to get on.’
Then we were made a fool of again.
I say: ‘They almost got you too.’
But then first, sir ...
Imagine, a lifeless train like that.
A lifeless train like that, is just actually a lifeless piece of steel.
You just go on your way alone.
Sir, for two years I was busy with that because I ... not that ...
I could hit myself on the head because I was so dreamy.
But I was sitting in the planets, I was talking to the moon, and I was sitting between Jupiter and then I had to go on trains.
It was absolutely no use to me, because I was not sitting in that train, I was sitting in space.
Master Alcar says: ‘Now you are enjoying yourself.’
And then I also enjoyed myself.
I only arrived four days later; on the way I got out again, then one went away again.
‘Oh oh oh, he is busy again.’
I say: ‘I am not busy at all, that train had no time and I was standing there watching.’
So I was still dreaming.
But only just that shock, and I was still alive.
But now we are dying, and now we are tortured, sir.
Now we are beaten?
No, but that is quite something that you are eaten by the ants there.
Or you come there ...
Just mention those terrible massacres, how they can kill a human being there.
A torture, sir, as before, and did you think that you could forget that just like that?
Sir, you need five hundred lives for that in order to dissolve that; so deep, a thing like that makes a hole in your soul.
In your soul?
No, it makes a hole in your life.
That is a shock, sir.
That is incomprehensible, that is incredible.
And this is why I want to see whether it will dissolve for that gentleman by means of reading.
And then you can say: ‘Yes, I know it, I know it, I know it, I know it.’
And whether you now say: ‘Sir, madam, there is no fear here, and there is nothing burning here.’
Well, but that door has to open, that door has to open, they start to shout, sir.
A psychologist does not know it.
Perfectly simple: there is a hole in that life, because it has already happened once.
This is the pure picture, that the human being does not want to be closed off: there must be an opening.
And if you were burned alive there, then something happened.
Who knows what happened.
But something very bad; just accept that.
After ten, twenty lives, sir, it also comes back consciously, that fear comes back consciously for every life.
And that fear cannot be changed by anything.
You must experience it again, you must be in a state like that again.
And when I went to Utrecht for the second time, then I was having a nice seat in that train: gone, gone dream.
It will never annoy you again.
You can see those things, if we make mistakes, how that follows us.
This is only just a perfectly ordinary train.
And here it is this and there it is that, every human being has his own problem.
And the human being coos because of that?
No, the human being suffers because of that, in his sleep.
During sleep we are not unconscious, that life of feeling in the depth continues, and then that arises precisely, the people dream about that.
(Lady in the hall): ‘Mr Rulof?’
Yes, madam.
(Lady in the hall): ‘When does that dissolve then?’
Well, madam, I ...
(Lady in the hall): ‘Do you have to work on that yourself or ...’
I am curious whether, sir, after reading twenty books, whether that fear will be gone.
And for another person it is this.
Madam, the ladies or the gentlemen who have that: here that cubby-hole, and that is closed off, and then they start to scream and shout: something is happening ...
Madam, you must put that woman, or that man in that cubby-hole again and then everything breaks loose, but now nothing happens, then they are rid of it.
And then it is also possible, that other life, if it was a gram stronger, it will still arise.
And then that means something again.
A gram from the hundred pounds in weight, in kilos, says even more about the accident; it has secured itself there.
And that is a life, and that is a situation, and that is the thinking, that is the feeling; that whole personality has nothing to say, madam, only by means of that one thing.
Those people can be analysed infallibly.
And how does that dissolve?
In ten, twenty lives you will still not be rid of it.
(It remains quiet.)
Which one of you?
(Lady in the hall): ‘What is the difference between soul and spirit?’
Do you still not know that?
Then you will go back two classes.
(To someone in the hall): She had to know about it, sir, don't you think?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Yes, I would say: the soul is the core of the spirit.’
No, sir, recently she also asked a question, and then she got an answer, but she has forgotten that again.
I have still not forgotten that.
Madam, the soul is the God and you yourself are the spirit.
Did you not know that?
(Lady in the hall): ‘Yes.’
Didn’t I know it?
Which of you?
(Lady in the hall): ‘Mr Rulof?’
Yes, madam.
(Lady in the hall): ‘I know from you, from all those books which I have read, that you go back, or that you will enter the luminous ... in heaven, just say, but I am still not rid of that fear, just before dying.’
Are you still not rid of it?
(Lady in the hall): ‘Not yet rid of it.’
Do you already know that, now already?
(Lady in the hall): ‘No, I still have it.’
So you are still also afraid that you will die?
(Lady in the hall): ‘No, not afraid of dying, but just before dying ...’
Yes, yes, perhaps you have also experienced something.
Will we try it this evening, sister, to put you in the ground for half an hour, then you will suddenly know it.
Yes, then you will suddenly know it.
(Lady in the hall): ‘But I experience so many deathbeds, and I cannot get rid of it.’
In Ancient Egypt ... here you cannot get those things out, but there we have healed people.
You will say: ‘Were you there then?’
Yes, I am an ancient Egyptian.
Anyone who just comes here says: ‘Well, what a braggart that is.’
And if you hear that then I could certainly imagine that those people think: ‘Oh well, those people there in the Ruyterstraat are round the bend.
They call themselves ancient Egyptians and they are there and there ...’
But we were able to heal people there, and it is here, in the East you also have those schools, with a yogi or something, who puts you in the ground in an ice-cold manner and lets you stay there for a while, but then you remain under concentration, under his will.
A fakir, a magician cannot do it.
A yogi, an initiated can heal you, and heals you from fears and trembling.
And it can also be healed by hypnosis but then you walk under the power and the will of another for your whole life.
But it can be healed, but then a great deal must happen in order to free you from that.
And if you still have that, then it is very certainly - because you have read all the books, you have experienced all the lectures - then there must certainly be something in you so that you think: yes, it happened there, or, it happened here.
Which one of us did not experience a wonderful hanging?
Yes, you are laughing at that, madam.
But if we ... in that and that time in Paris ...
Someone comes to see me, that man is sick and now he get here around his throat here ...
He was forty-two, he was an intellectual from The Hague, it was in 1937, I remember, he says: ‘Sir, it is just as if between three and four, through my first sleep’, you see, also a significance, ‘then it is just as if they are closing my throat.
And then I almost suffocate and then I wake up.’
Master Alcar must make a diagnosis and descends into that life, but that man was strangled, strangled.
Another case like that.
I say: ‘Sir, I will not be able to rid you of that.’
Then you are powerless.
The human being must conquer himself.
A human being, a lady, she says: ‘If I just hear ‘grave’ ...’
No fear of death, but of the grave.
Then she says: ‘If I just come near a graveyard, then I already hear screaming and screaming and screaming’, and she says, ‘then I simply stand still.
It is just as if I come under hypnosis.
Sir, can you take that away from me?’
That woman was buried alive.
Nothing to be done about it.
We are powerless before that.
Hundreds of people with spiritual phenomena in them, first they raced off to all the psychologists in The Hague and everywhere ...
Someone had wandered about the whole world.
‘Cost me hundreds and thousands’, he says, ‘and I am still not rid of it.’
That man, for example, who there in the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia) - which you will read in ‘Spiritual Gifts’ - they married that man there unconsciously, he was not conscious, they coupled him to a woman; if those powers, spiritual, are there, which inner reactions can the human being experience by hanging?
And if you do it yourself it is not so bad if people strangle you, because if you want to strangle yourself that fear is not there.
Can you feel this tremendous difference?
But it is always, when you are strangled by another person, when you undergo a torture by another person; it is not so bad if you are busy provoking yourself.
(Someone in the hall says something.)
What did you say, madam?
(Lady in the hall): ‘You said: ‘That is not so bad’, but it is just as bad if another person does it.’
If you do it yourself, madam, you must listen carefully, it is not so bad.
But if another person does it, madam ... then there is no will in you.
The will of yours to do it kills the fear, because the personality is consciously busy strangling itself, just killing itself.
The human being who is gassed, and is tortured, so does not want to die ...
You should present that to a psychologist, sir, these two problems.
Is my fear conscious, sir?
Would I perhaps have committed suicide in some other way, I hung myself, I jumped overboard, or I let myself be eaten by ants, or whatever, I wanted to experience something?
Or is that imposed, sir?
The imposed deed, that means, the human being who strangles us against our will: now it becomes fear.
If I do it myself, there is no fear.
That difference is tremendous, do you feel that?
And then you get those problems.
But, sister, in the Schevening wood there are nice spots, let us try, then you just go in there, we have enough gravediggers here.
I will pray for you.
I will sing: ‘Hallelujah, and now she goes.’
Do you want to have it on Sunday morning or on Saturday afternoon?
Did you have anything else, madam?
Try it over there.
(Lady in the hall): ‘Mr Rulof, can it be, the self-doubt?’
What did you say?
(Lady in the hall): ‘The self-doubt, even if you have read all those books, you know that the people who have been good then enter the higher spheres.
But you cannot say of yourself: ‘I will enter the Sphere of Light, because you are conscious yourself of your own faults’?
Then you will not make it either.
Very simple.
If I just hit here, kick, lie and deceive, and I let rip like I don’t know what, and I hate, jealousy - what is jealousy - that is not so bad, but real destructive thoughts, and you read that, and we do not have love, yes, then I cannot enter that world; that is a world of harmony.
But you no longer need to doubt about what is in those books.
If that means nothing to you ...
You take one book in your hands, and that is ‘Jeus of Mother Crisje’.
The first pieces of proof which came when I used to play with balloons there, that is no use to you.
But when I came before Golgotha later, not any use either; then you say: ‘Oh well, that could also have been imagination.’
But those sixteen guilders in the wood, as a boy of five years old, which were brought to me by a thread on the Hunzeleberg, they are not fiction and not doubters, that is reality, and you should actually be able to convince the whole world with that.
Because a thread came from space, and I saw that thread, and it hopped out our gate, up the Grintweg, and into the wood and there I found - asleep, I was in a trance, I had disembodied - and then I found, as a spiritual child I found so many guilders and cents.
Have you read ‘Jeus of Mother Crisje’?
(Lady in the hall): ‘Yes, I do not say that I doubt your books, but I doubt my own qualities.
I doubt whether I will enter those spheres.’
That is something else again.
(Lady in the hall): ‘ ... fear ...’
That is something else again.
I understood that you: even if it says that there, and you still doubt: yes, then I cannot help the human being.
Then you must be able to help the whole world.
But when you doubt yourself; madam, then hack that doubt out and begin with something else, something which gives you satisfaction, and you no longer need to doubt.
(Lady in the hall): ‘But I try to live as good as possible, but a human being still sometimes makes mistakes as an ordinary human being.’
But my dear child, here even more crash to the ground.
They all still crash.
(Lady in the hall): ‘No one can tell me that I am that far that I will enter a Sphere of Light.’
But, my dear child ...
(Madam talks even further.)
Yes, this is why I say: they all still crash.
I crash too, I will not even enter it either.
We all have those pranks, but what does it matter, if you now just know that you are busy.
That is actually everything.
Those spheres do not mean a jot to me, if you want to know.
Here they are always talking about the spheres, and the spheres, and the spheres; that means nothing to a spirit, a being in space, in those spheres, nothing, that means nothing: they are almost never there.
They always live in the darkness, and are searching, are on the way to helping people.
Here, we people want to go to that first sphere.
Yes, you go and have a look if you enter that world there, that is a world of incredible beauty.
You want to take a little walk there for a moment sometime, that is the real paradise, with your sisters and brothers, your fathers and mothers, birds sing to you, just read ‘A View into the Hereafter’.
Have you read that?
(Lady in the hall): ‘Yes.’
Well, but when you have seen all of that, then you go on your way, because you want to go further, you want to go higher up, and you cannot experience that there by sitting still there and looking at those nice pictures, that all means nothing.
Everything is in the human being when the human being says: ‘I want to be better than I am now.’
If you say: ‘I still doubt myself, and I am willing, but it is still not working.’
My dear child, all those people are really fighting a battle here.
But you do not believe that either and I do not believe it either.
Because there are plenty there, and enough and sufficient, they are thinking, but they still do nothing for it.
They read, madam, and they think it is all wonderful and stand talking and also already know a lot; and they kick left and right from themselves.
Left and right, they kick away from themselves.
And he says: ‘Yes, they are those little devils in me.’
If you know that those things are there, they are the snide remarks we make to each other, why we hack those things ...
But that does not go suddenly.
To conquer a small characteristic, madam, is a fight for life and death.
But once you have mastered that ...
We have people here ...
They walk in here, and they go away again, that always goes on.
There are people who have called me everything which was ugly: ‘That brat of a man.
What does he want with those people?’
And now they are sitting there themselves and now they say to themselves: ‘Good heavens, good heavens, what a brat I was.’
Now they have suddenly awakened, and say: ‘My God, my God, what has happened to me?’
That must suddenly awaken.
And when the human being begins, and if the human being already says: ‘I am still just a big brat and I still doubt myself’, then you are very busy releasing yourself from that.
Because the rest of the world does not even want to think about any doubt and about those words because they are all on a high pedestal.
I am only just a big brat.
Then another does not need to say it.
But now you can make jokes, madam, and from inside you can say: ‘Well, just continue quickly.’
Do you understand it, madam?
They are all busy groaning here.
Who is not groaning here?
If you begin with this battle, you are busy groaning, you pull yourself inside out.
Did you also have another question?
(To someone in the hall): Yes, madam?
(Lady in the hall): ‘A child which commits suicide, must it also experience that rotting process again?’
No, madam.
And why not?
We have already treated that here.
That is a perfectly ordinary transition.
And why?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Because it is unconscious.’
That child is precisely conscious, sir, hundred percent conscious in order to pass over.
(Lady in the hall also says something.)
Because this life has not yet reached the adult stage.
So that child cuts the transition, death, off himself, cuts this life to pieces and continues.
Otherwise a child does not come to that stage, does it?
(Lady in the hall): ‘But up to what age is that?
I mean this: how old is it, how old must that child be then?’
If you are fourteen years old, if you have reached puberty, you, as a mother, and menstruation comes, then the divine law will begin, at that moment, at the first drop it will begin.
Don’t you think it is wonderful?
Then you are a mother.
And then motherhood starts to speak in you, as a law.
So this is still a child.
But so when the law of fatherhood and motherhood ...
We men are now standing outside of it.
But when you as a mother, if you are a mother, then the law holds ...
Which law now holds you fast and says: oh, wait a moment.
You got this, and you have that, and you live there and there?
If you therefore touch a law of Mother Nature, of God, and you mess up that law, you break something there, then you will feel, that that law of motherhood holds you fast, not God, but that law of motherhood which now holds you fast, and it says: yes, for so much time that you are a mother, you will experience something by means of it.
And then you have thousands of states again of course.
For what?
For the spirit, for your life of feeling, for the personality, for motherhood, or whatever, cause and effect, a karmic law.
Is that not interesting?
But a child, a boy can reach the age of fourteen, and then he slowly goes over it, but also after fourteen, when puberty happens, and the boy awakens, that is the half-waking adult stage, that is the half, that is the time which we use in order to lay foundations for the organism.
And that time also says: oh ...
(Lady in the hall): ‘So is that deeper for the girl?’
The mother is deeper, the man walks next to creation.
But because you are a mother, you will read that again for that matter in ‘Spiritual Gifts’ how wonderful the law of motherhood is, you are also attached, directly, to the law of motherhood: you are it.
And that law now says: you have experienced that, so you received consciousness by means of motherhood.
And that consciousness tells you: to here and not further, or, wait a moment.
Then you can be attached to that body for a while, you do not go into the ground, because you do not commit conscious murder in this, not conscious suicide.
But that is also a part of it.
Also a question again which needs analysis, if you want to treat that whole case.
But do you understand this?
That is a good question, madam.
Anything else?
Where are the gentlemen and ladies sitting now?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘I would like to continue with my question from a while ago, namely this: that very first transition, so let’s say, that ape which goes to the next stage, and if there was still not any animal like that, the next animal would still not be there ...’ On the moon?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘For example.
Or on the earth.’
You ask, you begin somewhere, you connect yourself with a time; which time?
For the human being?
You say: when the earth began, the human being also began in the waters as embryonic life.
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Yes.’
Then the animal kingdom came.
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘ ... that is understandable because it continues in one state, it continually evolves ...’
The human being?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Yes.’
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘But now the animal, isn’t it true, the animal follows in the human being’s footsteps, so therefore also came to the earth, but it has to experience thousands of states, that means: thousands of different animals come.’
The animal as life, isn’t it true, as a divine life, the animal experiences millions of organisms.
You too, but as a human being.
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Now my question was this, for example: when does the first pigeon appear?
That is the highest grade, isn’t it, where does that suddenly come from?’
But that is evolution?
Then you must say: when you are ...
You can make a comparison with the human being in the jungle, in the middle of the jungle, that first grade, that jungle inhabitant.
That journey, that change of the human being in colour, and in radiance and everything, that is also the change of the animal.
Even if the human being remains a human being.
The human being remains a human being if you at least ...
In the jungle, they are also people, it is called, yes, cannibals and Papuans; they are people in the pre-animal-like grade.
So those bodies, those bone structures and everything ...
Before that bone structure, for example, changed, that is awe-inspiring, because that does not change just like that.
You think, if you speak ‘from the jungle to the white race (see’, and you start to analyse the organism, then you will stand still in one grade for seven thousand years before that little bone slips downwards, and that nose really gets a nice shape now and those lips thin out.
Oh sir, you need a hundred thousand lives for that.
So that embellishing happens slowly, and it is the race (see, they are seven grades for the organism.
But firstly the animal comes from the waters to the land, and then finally it gets wings, it is an eagle, and all those first large species, those wild species, which in Rotterdam in the ...
What are they called, the congos (condors); have I got the name right?
In this way there are different species, that is the largest but the lowest species.
And then you finally get the highest race there for the animal world, and that is the pigeon and that is the bird, that is the nightingale, and all those little sweet species.
But when you also sit on the life and want to catch the life, a sparrow hawk for example, and all those species - that is all still wild, isn’t it? - that can still not go to the spheres.
But what I asked you: where does ... live now ...
A bird lays eggs, and a bird broods and is mother and father.
How does the paternal originate in the animal world, and the maternal?
And where does the spiritual world live, the world of the unconscious for the bird, and a pigeon?
Do you also know that?
That question was never asked here before.
(Lady in the hall): ‘Close to the animal.’
What did you say?
(Lady in the hall): ‘Close to the animal itself.’
Close to the animal.
Because the fish ...
The world of reincarnation - for the human being, is just the world of unconsciousness - the world for reincarnation is a vastness outside of us ... outside of us.
That is the whole universe ... the whole universe.
That is not only the atmosphere around the earth, but the whole universe, madam.
But why?
(Lady in the hall): ‘Because ...’
Yes, just say it.
(Lady in the hall): ‘Because there are so many of them?’
No, the concept of many does not exist for the universe.
You can continue to talk for millions of years about millions of people, and then you will still not have made it.
And yet every human being has his space.
Madam, you flashed through millions of astral beings today.
Did you see them?
You went through thousands of worlds.
Did you notice that?
I did.
If you get those worlds ...
But according to your own attunement you go through all those worlds.
But why, Mr Berends, is ...
No, now I will not say it.
Where does the world live, the astral world for that ...?
That of the human being is vastly deep, spatially deep.
Not a grade deeper ...
The world of the unconscious, where do you live now in this world, and you must return to the earth?
That world for reincarnation, how deep is that?
We can absolutely, sir, madam ...
I saw that, you can see and mark that out infallibly.
Did you also know that, Mr Berends?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘No.’
How is it possible, you should know it, you will soon say: oh.
Yes, madam?
(Lady in the hall): ‘What you possess in consciousness.’
No, darling, no. (laughter)
I had wanted to say: ‘No, sweet’, but that does not work of course.
No, madam, it is not that.
(Lady in the hall): ‘With every planet of human life.’
What did you say?
(Lady in the hall): ‘With every planet of human life.’
Yes, you are getting close.
(A gentleman says something.)
What did you say?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘In the time of before creation.’
Do you not feel then, madam, we experienced the space of the moon, then we only had the moon sphere.
But then secondary planets came; so the world of the unconscious, for reincarnation, it got expansion.
So from the first embryonic life on the moon and this life, the spiritual astral world for the reincarnation is so deep; so the whole universe.
But where does the astral world for the chicken now live?
And the dog?
We learned that fish ... and that is very clear, the spiritual astral world lives in the waters, that is material and spirit, and nothing else.
A fish does not come outside its sphere, that is also the spiritual world.
Did you know that, Mr de Jong?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Yes, I knew that, master Zelanus said that once.’
Master Zelanus said that.
But where does the astral spiritual world now live for reincarnation, for attracting, for the chicken, for example, and the dog and the cat?
(Lady in the hall): ‘But you said, there was a separate section in the astral world for those animals?’
Yes, madam, but it is not that.
It is not that.
No, I did not say that, madam, it is not that.
(Lady in the hall): ‘They have their own sphere there.’
Yes, but it is not that.
(Lady in the hall): ‘A section as it were.’
It is not that.
You can live ...
But I also explained that here.
Then you can see that there is nothing left of what I am telling here.
If you get that soon in the books, in the book which is finished, from here, then you will say: ‘Oh yes.’
But it still penetrates ...
I always notice that, it must be retained for a moment ...
I know exactly what I explained in 1950.
Because I can never tell anything else.
(Lady in the hall): ‘No, but you were talking about ...’
No, but here the question was asked, master Alcar’s dog was there.
I say: ‘Yes, it was also there.’
So there is an astral world.
But the world for reincarnation is something else, then the human being dissolves, then the animal dissolves.
Where does that spiritual world now live?
You should hear that tremendous difference!
(Lady in the hall): ‘I would say in the henhouse itself, because they do not need to wait.’
Hahaha! (laughter)
Madam, you are close.
Yes, we must really go into the henhouse.
(Hall): ‘In the ground.’
(Someone says): ‘In the egg.’
What did you say?
(Lady in the hall): ‘In the ground.’
In the ground of the henhouse?
(Lady in the hall): ‘In the egg.’
(Lady in the hall): ‘In the earth.’
In the earth.
No, no, madam, no, the chickens are not in there.
(Lady in the hall): ‘In the egg.’
In the ovaries.
Not in the egg, because that is already creation.
The chicken has no astral world to wait for, because that is in the ovaries, in the motherhood of that animal; also of the dog, and also of the cat, and for all those species which continually create and give birth, reincarnation is in the ovary.
When those ovaries have gone, it is for that chicken, for that one animal it is finished.
Because the chicken takes the All-Source with it.
Isn’t that wonderful?
Had you thought that?
A dog too.
But a dog who ... so a little animal gets little children, a dog gets little children.
But the spirit ...
So that cell, those ovaries of that animal, of that mother, also possess the world of the unconscious.
And you do not have that as a mother.
We, we attract a separate life.
But it lives in that dog. Those grades possess the world of the unconscious, fatherhood and motherhood, reincarnation, the Divine realm of colours, Great Wings, everything, everything, everything, everything.
Isn’t that wonderful?
And it is only then that you get to know the life of a dog and a cat.
And that is so amazing because, from God, the animal which has no world of existence, which therefore still has to reincarnate at this moment ...
We can’t become anything else but a human being, can we?
But a dog becomes a bird.
So God said: then you will also have to possess everything in order to send yourself to the winged animal.
That animal must possess everything because it cannot think creatingly consciously; it goes according to nature, as motherhood and fatherhood.
Isn’t that wonderful?
And this is why that animal has, the dog, cat, chickens have everything in them; and now the ovaries are ... for the chicken that is the spiritual world.
The spirit and the astral world are also in those eggs.
If an animal like that dies out, then there are still millions of them.
And then that life dissolves.
Now there is something else, you will never find out.
Now you have, for example, if you want to treat it cosmically with regard to the divine macrocosmic laws, then we will take an hour this evening, for example, and say, and it is a law for the world: all chickens have, for example, coryza or the chicken disease.
What is that called?
So we must kill all those chickens.
Now there is a hole in the transition - first you come from the jungle, and that lives in the wild - that chicken has a transition for another life, and that becomes smaller, smaller, smaller, and gradually it is sitting in the cage and it has to sing.
Because we do not see a chicken, madam, on the other side.
You do not get any chicken soup there.
Peter does not have chicken soup, he says: ‘Because you already destroyed enough of them on earth.’
But now a hole comes, and if we dissolve those lives, then you will say: what will happen now?
Because there is just a hole in creation.
And then the next grade comes - and we also experienced that with people - the next grade which now takes care of itself of course so that it cannot be dissolved.
For example, I think that the chickens would take to their heels and would go into the jungle in order to protect themselves, if that motherhood started to feel this - and that feels it because that is the divine unity for the animal and the human being - in order to protect themselves, so that the human being cannot wipe out that grade.
And it happens like that because people also have it.
And do you now know - I want to go there - and do you now know where those phenomena live, that the law of body for fatherhood, for motherhood takes care of itself?
The human being also has it.
If they ask me a question, if master Alcar asks me a question like that now, I must immediately answer him, I must be able to do that for Cosmology, otherwise he would have had to go back, and he would not have been able to continue.
We could not experience any cosmology and say ...
I would never have experienced that Cosmology if I had not experienced and had not written ‘The Origin of the Universe’.
So if you want to have cosmic consciousness ...
Master Alcar built that up for himself of course, because the more he taught me, the more he could give.
But when he asks that question, I had to have the one answer immediately, because he could ... for the Cosmology you cannot start to give explanations because then you are still a pupil, and an adept, and then you lay the first foundations.
It is exactly the same as here for the earth, if you get the last lessons in order to get a doctorate, then they ask you questions, and then they get: yes yes yes, it is fine.
What are those phenomena due to?
Where can we see and experience in the human being the own harmony and the taking care of your own grade of life?
How can you see that?
(Lady in the hall): ‘One person must have a lot more children.’
See, that child gets full marks right now.
Madam, that is the truth.
If you come on the other side soon, and you do not need to do anything else, then you will make quick progress.
And I have noticed before that you think sharply.
When the war of 1940-1945 passed ...
One mother gives birth to more children than the other, it also lies in that.
But it is about this - it is still not the actual answer - but you are close by.
There were more boys born than girls.
So the boys, that is the creating power ...
The human being already no longer has that in his hands.
No, Mother Nature says ...
Look, the weighing scales in space of all our people on earth, there are so many men and so many women.
Now we wipe out so many men, now you get a chaos in the birth.
There are still women living in Germany, in those lands there are thousands of women who cannot get a husband, and must give birth, so that chaos is already there.
And now you get, now the following image comes, that one mother must give birth to five, and ten, and twenty children and another mother does not even want them.
But now they have wiped out the men.
So that primal source now, which is the earth, which is only fatherhood and motherhood, now makes sure that boys are born.
The academic knows nothing about that, he says: ‘They are just boys, they are just boys, they are just boys.’
But Mother Nature ...
Then they say: ‘Yes, Mother Nature takes care of that.’
No, sir.
Yes, if you take Mother Nature as mother.
Because the law of Mother Earth says: ‘I have so many men and so many mothers, and not one of them may go’, otherwise a chaos will come.
And then you should look over the earth - how many people murdered and committed arson, we destroyed ourselves - what a chaos we created in that, and messed up the divine harmonic laws for reincarnation, fatherhood and motherhood.
Do you sense this?
This law ...
If we were to slaughter those chickens ...
Madam, we cannot even do that, because that motherhood will make sure again that that is steered in the right direction.
Because the human being himself also has it, but now it happens outside of the human being.
Do you sense this?
So if I enter the state now, what happens now?
So, we wipe out so many million men, for example, and now we have learned that we are attached to karmic laws, and also to physical laws, because I am a man and I must go to motherhood, I must therefore reincarnate in order to become a mother.
But now millions of souls live in the world of the unconscious, and they wait for a body, and they are involved with karma and cause and effect.
And now the amazing thing to which ...
Master Alcar says: ‘Look, we will never get, even if the human being destroys himself, even the human being makes victims, we will still not get the divine laws in our hands.’
Because now Mother Earth herself makes sure that the boys are born and says: ‘Stop that own karma: first my harmony.’
And now the law of birth for creation goes before every human karma, and now boys are born.
So now you get to see the law for space infallibly, and this is a thick book, so thick, and thousands of problems charge at me.
Now it is a thick book, by means of which we start to see that Mother Earth is the God, possesses the divine attunement, and the law, and the power, and the harmony in order to be able to carry through that life of ours.
If we could also get those laws and those lives and those organisms in our hands, then we would destroy even more.
Because in the jungle ... and what did we not start with?
And that, madam - now I will come back to you - that is also for the whole animal world.
Every animal experiences fatherhood, motherhood in the first place, also the pigeon - doesn’t it? - I have seen that with pigeons, sister, and brother, appeared.
And if you now ask that man: ‘Sir, why did you get a cock-pigeon now?’
‘And why is he a cooer, the man, the creator, and why is that the pigeon?’ then, I do not believe it, in the Netherlands, that there is one, a pigeon milker like that, who knows the fatherhood and motherhood of the pigeon.
He says: ‘Yes, now I have a pigeon again, but I must have a cock-pigeon.’
Why are there cock-pigeons and why are there pigeons?
Madam, sir ...
(To the sound technician): And then I think that we just have time, Mr van Straaten, don’t we?
Madam and sir, they are the divine laws of giving birth for all the life of God, not only for the human being, but even for the smallest, most trivial insect; divine fatherhood and motherhood lives in there, and the organism possesses it.
Is that clear?
The tea is ready.
There you are.
Ladies and gentlemen, I got the question here: “Is it permitted to use violence in order to prevent a murder or another crime if there is no time to do it in another way?”
Is it permitted to use violence in order to prevent a crime?
From who is that?
Sir, a crime ...
Someone comes up your stairs and he wants to attack you and he wants to do something to your wife and your children, and now you are faced with that - and you do not approve of course - and you shoot that man down, then you are a murderer.
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘ ... yes, not that of course.
To hit him on the head without him dying of course.’
You can do that of course.
If you are a good boxer then you  give him an upside-down, or a ... (laughter)
And that is not right of course, you box him upside-down, you make him topsy-turvy, if he then falls down twenty stairs and there is nothing wrong with him, then there is nothing the matter.
But you can defend yourself irrevocably, you do not need to approve that people murder you and your children.
That is also something.
But when we violate ourselves and you were to knock him down, you are irrevocably a murderer.
A bit of joei-jitsi, or a club at the back of the head like that, a little ...
(Lady in the hall): ‘A bit of a shaking.’
A bit of a shaking, madam, isn’t it?
Sir, if you murder the human being by being angry, by being cross - all those laws can be analysed, I had to ask - if you ...
If that man who comes upstairs there, or wherever it happens, and we get angry and we knock him down, then that is murder.
Or, if that man, if that was to be his time ...
Last week we talked here about different deathbeds; God does not know any deathbeds.
And when we now ...
Someone on the street makes a bit of fuss and we wallop him right in his face, and we hit him blind, that is even worse, even worse, because then you can come back again only in order to give him light again in his eyes.
But it is murder.
Do you have any more questions about that?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘For example, a driver who kills a whole bus full of people by driving wildly.’
Yes, sir, but that is not murder, that man did not want that.
But consciously, everything which happens consciously.
So I attune to ...
There are people who search for it, that is conscious hatred.
The hatred can be analysed from the unconscious to the conscious; there are people who hate, who have a hatred in them and they do not know why.
There are people who are touchy about the human being and they do not know why.
There are people who are grumpy and all those other little characteristics, they know why, but they do not know how they are like that.
They know that they are, let me put it this way.
But a bus driver, a pilot, who goes into space there and takes you with him; is still always over too soon.
Not conscious murder.
Because that man, that pilot, and that train driver, he doesn’t intend to murder you consciously, because then they do it differently.
Therefore as long as the human being does not attune himself to conscious hatred, by means of which murder, death, originate, you are not attached to that law.
Because you have not experienced that law, and that law did not reach quickening either.
If you start to murder consciously then you awaken that law, and then you are attached to that being awake.
Very simple, isn’t it?
There are people, today there are thousands of people who have died again, passed on, consciously or unconsciously; perhaps also a few thousand because of murder, in Paris, or here in The Hague perhaps, you do not know, but it is possible.
Everything which the human being does consciously and comes down to self-defence, then you will not come, you will not come to stand before the conscious murder for the time being, because if someone comes to you and he wants to grab one of your children, or yourself, or your wife, then you start to defend yourself, and then an accident happens: man dead.
‘Yes, I had to defend myself.’
Then the court will already begin: ‘Yes, sir, you should not have hit.’
‘Yes, sir, but I was attacked.’
‘Yes, sir, you will go in any case for three, four years, or six, seven months you will go to prison.’
So people already punish you here.
And the spiritual law punishes you of course.
Anything else?
Which one of you?
No one else?
(A gentleman says something.)
What did you say?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘About that suicide.’
Another question about this?
All clear?
So you do not do it, Mr Götte.
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘No, I will just not do it.’
No revolvers at home.
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘No.’
No sir.
(Lady in the hall): ‘Mr Rulof?’
Yes, madam?
(Lady in the hall): ‘You said recently that going in an aeroplane, or to fly with that, is already suicide.’
Is passing on too soon.
Is part of suicide, but you are not under the ground, you are not attached to your body.
(Lady in the hall): ‘Oh.
Yes, yes.’
You are attached ...
You should listen carefully, I have explained those things here, those laws, a hundred times I think.
And do you know it now?
What are you attached to?
What are you attached to now, ladies and gentlemen?
Where are my adepts now?
(People talk at the same time.)
(Someone says): ‘Daredevilry.’
Yes, and what is daredevilry?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Suicide.’
(People talk at the same time.)
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘A gentle suicide.’
A gentle suicide.
That is good, a gentle suicide.
You are - now we will translate it - you are attached to nonchalance and daredevilry, aren’t you?
And that daredevilry takes you, to what?
You are not in the ground with your body, but your corpse goes into the ground, your body goes into the ground.
You are not attached to it.
But what are you attached to?
(People talk at the same time.)
What did you say?
(Lady in the hall): ‘To the aeroplane, to the law.’
To the aeroplane, but that thing burns completely.
(People are saying all kinds of things at the same time.)
You are going astray.
Because of that, ladies and gentlemen, the human being used to start to haunt.
The human being who is attached to his time ...
They still do not know now what a ghost is.
In ‘Spiritual Gifts’ the ghost is analysed.
But that pilot, and that man passes on because of nonchalance and daredevilry, such as a fighter jet crashes there every week, those kiddies, those mites of twenty and twenty-one years old, let us assume that that boy still becomes sixty, seventy years, but he is attached to that flying for sixty years, and he does not become free.
He does not have a conscious murder, it concerns flying, it does not concern murder.
But that same twenty-one year old pilot, if he must become eighty years old, ladies and gentlemen, if it is your son, then you can just say: he has been eliminated for sixty years.
He enters directly into the world where Lantos Dumonché, master Zelanus, entered after the rotting.
They have neither life nor death, live in a world which cannot be seen.
No clairvoyant can see that world: they have no more light, they have a light greyish mist, unconsciousness.
That is a world which lies between the world of consciousness, between the world of both reincarnation, and the human world which can be seen.
If those boys must become eighty years old, then they have numbed themselves for sixty years, spiritually humanly numbed themselves.
Because they have done something by means of which they ended, destroyed, shredded their lives; not raped, but deformed.
Is that not clear?
And it is like that for hundreds of things.
A motorbike rider, to drive a car, aeroplanes ...
With that car, what kind of ...
Now you must imagine: what kid of nonsense is that?
That is breaking records.
A boxer who is beaten there in the ring: dead.
Well, I know all those laws.
That gentleman, that boxer, he is lying there; for forty, fifty years he sits in that ring and does not come out of it.
He feels for sixty years that he is beaten, and that moment when he passes on, that last blow which gave him that, he feels that for sixty years.
And every second again.
That becomes a torture, it is just as bad as that you ... there ... is not as bad as cremation, that is also bad.
But the boxer who gets a beating there and succumbs, and enters the coffin ...
Because he let his life be beaten out there sixty years too soon.
They are really human lustful characters, aren’t they?
They are not divine laws which God invented, are they?
Do you sense it?
All the sensation by means of which the human being dies, by means of which the human being is torn from his body, that is spiritual destruction.
And now you should imagine who is attached a bit to his neighbourhood every day; to that boxing, to that racing, and to that running and all those other things.
A motorbike rider like that comes into a corner there ... bbrrroom: gone, sir.
Yes, he was driving a hundred and sixty, boom, over that fence: stone dead.
What age will you reach, sir?
Let’s see.
Oh, seventy-four, seventy-five years old.
Now you are thirty, twenty-four?
He will be attached to that racing for sixty years now.
He will not be released from it, because that racing and that raising of his spirit and his whole personality ...
He can no longer experience the normal, because normal is the normal human part and does not mean racing in order to break records, that is the calm, normal human day consciousness, and that is working, working, working and sleeping, and for the rest nothing, and making sure that you make something nice of it.
But they are things which we have invented in society and by means of which the human being nails himself to his own state.
And that is just as bad, sir and madam, as cremation.
Then the human being says: ‘But then you are free.’
But then you walk - because you do not know the laws - then you are still free from your body, then you just go, after cremation ... you are burned, but then it was your time anyway.
Or you must consciously, also murder once more, a murder ...
You cannot go to a crematorium alive and say: ‘Sir, just burn me’, in order to commit suicide, because they do not do that.
So the human being who dies does it.
In other words, the human being who is healthy and puts an end to his life himself because of frivolity, is also attached by means of that frivolity to that same frivolity until the hour comes, the minute comes of normal dying, and then the man goes, the mother or the father, that soul goes to the world of the unconscious in order to be born again, either for fatherhood, or for motherhood, or then goes to the other side, and then you are exactly the same there as at the moment that you died.
Nothing else.
But you stand still for those sixty years; complete elimination of everything.
Because you live there and you ... ‘ 
Vroom-vroom’, that just continues, that just continues; because that is a destruction which is experienced for a hundred percent and abnormal, so that abnormality in which you live yourself ...
You are that motorbike rider, aren’t you?
So you cannot release yourself from that, or you must be able to say on earth consciously in your body: ‘I will stop.’
But now you will not be free of it again.
You can only do that in your body.
There you have the power and the will to release yourself.
But that spirit has taken along that whole business, that whole world, that whole destruction, and your personality cannot be changed now, because you no longer have any reality.
That is very dirty.
That seems so innocent that there is someone who ... consciously there ...
You can already get a wallop with thirty, forty kilometres per hour so that you go to hospital.
But when you consciously know with a car like that: well, I will just chase, I will just get out what is in it ...
I was also naughty sometimes a few years ago.
Do you remember, sir?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Yes yes, I remember.’
And then I got my wallop.
If master Zelanus had not taken over the steering wheel, I would have put five in hospital.
And only because I ...
You know those bends.
I forgot it.
I have on the street, I was here in Marlot (area in The Hague), I think: good heavens, good heavens, fifty, a hundred times, two thousand times in those seven, eight years we went through Marlot, through that corner like that, and estimated, it was a bit dark, we were coming from Amsterdam, I estimate it too late, I am driving too fast and then boomboom.
Yes, suddenly, with full concentration, it was no longer even me, and so ...
If I ... one ...
He can drive well, but he says: ‘One wrong action, Jozef, and we would have gone upside down.’
I say: ‘I will take care of it.
I will take care of it.
I will take care of it.’
And there you go again.
You can get that just like that.
I drive rigidly just as with talking, with writing, with everything.
Don’t I, sir?
The two of us were coming from somewhere, he says: ‘Stop.’
I say: ‘I will not stop anything.’
‘Yes’, he said, ‘if someone comes there ...’
I say: ‘Yes, now you must accept, Mr van Straaten, that I am driving and can see.’
I learned it like that, so I cannot drive any differently.
I must take into account ...
I started to drive clairvoyantly, because I learned to drive - you will read that soon in Jeus III - on a chair, and then a mechanic from the other side came - I will give you it to do - and he taught me it in a week ...
In one week I had to sit my test.
And then my brother Johan said: ‘He cannot cope with the city, he must go back to Crisje, because he is going insane.’
He says: ‘Do you also have to sit your test?’
I say: ‘Yes.’
But I sat in that room with my brother the tailor screeching round on a chair.
And that chair was a car and I was driving in the Venestraat and went up the Leidsestraatweg, I say: ‘Can you not watch out?’
But then there was almost a lady under my car yonder, on the Leidsestraatweg.
And my brother heard that, he says: ‘Round the bend.’
Bernhard said: ‘He is completely mad.’
And then I came back again.
And then Bernhard says: ‘But are you serious now?’
I say: ‘But do you not know what happened to me before?’
‘But you cannot become a driver on a chair, can you?’
Johan said: ‘He must go home.’
Fine, we are not talking about that now.
But one evening we come ...
He says: ‘Stop.’
I say: ‘No, sir, but there is something coming.’
I say: ‘A green car.’
Then I looked through the houses.
And then I was standing on the corner of the street: boom.
‘Hum’, he says.
Didn’t he?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Yes.’
Clairvoyant: looking through the houses.
But if I sit nonchalantly behind the wheel ...
I can be sent to the other side by another person in the street.
But if you want to see it properly, ladies and gentlemen - and we may not live like that either, because we must go with the times - then you can analyse the state and the time of every human being, because not one comes to the other side almost normally, because half of mankind is run down in the street, and has faults himself, and just flies and drives recklessly.
You should now look and see if you have all those laws, and know those laws, all the things which happen in the street because of inconsideration, not looking.
A lady does not look at all, crosses the street: ding, hospital, dead.
What is that?
Now we must adjust to society.
Did God create that?
So that mother, or that man, someone who is walking just like that thinking and thinking and thinking, and is run down by the train like that.
What is that?
Is that God’s will?
Is that the driver’s fault?
Why did that man not think better?
Accidents happened because of nonchalance, by getting lost in thoughts.
The man who was almost run down so that that driver had to break suddenly.
He turned upside down with all his people: fifteen, sixteen people dead, you suddenly hear.
Because of that fellow who was walking there dreaming.
If that driver had not had to break, nothing would have happened.
Oh sir, and this is how accidents happen which you do not want.
Someone comes to me last week, he says: ‘Something which never happens to me, I almost killed a child. I break at full power, a child is standing beside the pavement, it is not watching out at all, races across the street, but I am driving towards there, it hits my car.
I think: oh God, it is dead.
The child bounced into the air, it falls down, it stands looking like that: nothing wrong.’
But a hundred thousand are dead.
His fault?
No, because he did not want it.
It was that child!
But the adults are also like that.
And then you actually pass on too soon.
That boxer and that racer, and the human being who does that and that, does sport, and all those things in order to break records, and pilots and all those other things, those people all pass on too soon.
It really comes down to, ladies and gentlemen, which task we seek and want to do for our normal evolving here on earth.
True or not?
And that is true.
When you come to the divine laws then you will feel: that is a tree of life, and there are its branches.
Here we pass on too soon, and that is disharmony, because we make, create disharmony because I race along the street like a possessed being with that car, or with that aeroplane.
But there is a mother who does not want any children, she has no love.
And there is a mother who says: ‘I do not want any children at all’, and sends those children away again.
Exactly the same thing.
So you already get it for motherhood, you already have disharmony and destruction.
And would the personality have nothing to do with all those wild characteristics with regard to his personality and life of feeling?
But that must mean something if the human being races across that street there like a wild duck and does that and that.
I say: ‘Yes, it is no wonder to me at all, sir, that you will break your neck today or tomorrow.
What does that matter to me, that is your business.’
But he is attached to something, he eliminates himself too soon.
And it is not conscious murder, but those people are attached to their nonchalance, their frivolity, and that is: they cannot become free from that state until the hour of dying comes.
And that can take fifty years, it can take sixty years.
Those people haunt.
If they could get contact with the earth, sir, society, mankind received too much consciousness, but otherwise you would, in the middle of the day you would hear the human being: vroom-vroom; but you do not hear it.
Then a spiritual astral being appears there like that with a spiritual motorbike, Mr van Straaten, and he really also knocks you down.
One comes there: vvrroom.
That happens.
That motorbike rider who there at the TT (Touring Trophy, motorrace circuit), in Assen, who flies out of the corner; sir, he is not sitting there, he is not doing anything else but: vrrtt.
If you are clairvoyant, and you are clairaudient, while in the kitchen, you can see a fellow flying past, taking the corner, because he is attached to that.
Then he takes the corner, in the kitchen, and then that mother says: ‘It is strange, but I can still hear my son.’
I say: ‘Yes, madam, he is haunting.’
He still has his Norton (motorcycle) with him.
Sir, you will not become free from it, until you get the normal thinking again, because you feel, you are insane here for that sport, dissolved in racing, and you cannot free yourself from that just like that and think: oh, it has happened.
No, sir, you are still in it.
And because you experience unity with that, you will not become free from it.
And that is for arts and sciences, sir.
If you say: ‘That is not right’, then I will prove it to you.
And how can that be seen?
In the mental institution the conscious insane people live, the human being who can prove it to you.
Who are they now?
That is just as bad.
(Lady in the hall): ‘ ... for study ...’
That child is getting full marks this evening.
You are listening well.
I told you recently: there was a boy, a lady comes to me: ‘Yes, Mr Rulof, can you do something for my son?
I say: ‘Madam, what is the matter?’
‘Well, he is in Rosenburg.’
He could speak sixteen languages, and normal, wonderful.
A boy who could learn.
The seventeenth language broke his neck.
He is in there now.
He could ...
And then they could hear French, German, Italian, Hebrew, Latin and Greek - and he mixes everything together - and then that one comes out as: wrlumwrlum, he begins to descend and to descend; and there you have his illness.
And his whole life ...
He is still alive, do you see?
He is still alive.
And did you think now, now that we know that we have a spiritual personality behind ‘the coffin’ ...
Or is that body talking nonsense there?
Who is that who ... his languages again there ...
He translates and writes poetry, he also has poems.
That human spirit there in Rosenburg, which: ‘Oh, eh, sit down, this morning we have French.’
And then he begins (Jozef imitates French sounds.) ‘Sit down!’
And then those insane people have to, he grabs them by the scruff of the neck and then he says: ‘Sit down!’
And then he comes like a prof, and at once he is talking about Hebrew just now, and then he has Jerusalem there and he has this there, and then the stands in the corner and then there are no people again, and then the male nurse comes ...
‘And I am part of it’, the mother says.
‘Sit down!’
To his mother.
Then she says: ‘But son.’
‘Sit down, and otherwise get out!’
And he does it like that.
And then he begins.
And then the mother has to ...
And thinks: yes, then at least I am still with him.
And then she must learn Hebrew.
But Italian at once.
And then she thinks: ‘Oh God, but my son.
But do you not know then that I am here?’
‘Sit down!’ and then the prof appears.
The teacher is completely mad.
Then she says: ‘If only he had become a greengrocer.
And now I have an academic.
I was so proud of my son.’
The prof said: ‘Oh madam, he is a language genius.’
Then she says: ‘Yes doctor, it is wonderful, isn’t it?’
And now he is in Rosenburg.
‘If only he was a greengrocer.’
I say: ‘Madam, then he would have counted so many grains of corn, then again he would be ...(inaudible), if he then continues.’
But you see, what concerns us is, if that man is still busy with his languages ...
And there you have this and there you have the minister ...
The minister there, he say: ‘Well ...’
You have read ‘Masks and Men’: ‘God, Jehovah, God.’
‘Yes’, Hans says.
But that is here in Rosenburg.
And in every mental institution you see the ministers, the religious maniacs; they now hang between life and death, and forgot to take along a ladder in order to come back.
They search for God and go too far, do not come back again, cannot come back again, because they have dissolved.
‘Eeeh ...’, they begin there.
We have thousands of insane people, religious maniacs.
If master Alcar had not laid any foundations with me, bit by bit like that, certainties, certainties, there, there, there, there ...
I have now experienced the cosmos.
What are sixteen languages then, sir?
You should ask me a hundred million questions here sometime.
A lady ...
It is not possible anyway, because then you must discuss that together beforehand.
In order to see now ...
Then you can determine the consciousness, you already know that a bit, because then we can go into it more deeply ourselves, but quickly: quack quack quack.
Even if you were to ask a hundred thousand questions, sir, then you will certainly not make me nervous.
But that man broke his neck, his inner spiritual neck because of a few languages.
Then what if you speak the languages of the world.
There is a gentleman who can do it, because I read it recently, he knew some hundred and forty-five languages, including dialects.
There are also those people in the world.
But you see, that is the consciousness, that is feeling.
But this man just went a bit too far and did not know his life of feeling, and then he began to prattle away and dissolved into the languages, and that is the same for him, he is still alive ...
But if an accident happens, that accident of that man is just like a madhouse ‘behind the coffin’ as for him there in that mental institution, sir, because there is no difference.
Is that not fair?
It is a fact.
You should tell a psychologist that.
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Mr Rulof?’
Yes, sir.
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Can a chess fanatic also sit playing chess on the other side?’ Yes indeed. (Gentleman in the hall): ‘Is that true?’
Yes, but they also play chess in the heavens, because chess in not so childish.
In the morning ...
In the heaven you sometimes get bored, Mr Götte.
You can also play draughts.
(Mr Götte): ‘I do not believe any of it.’
Do you not believe it?
But now something else, I also have this question first, otherwise I will get into an argument with that lady, then she will say: ‘That gentleman is just gossiping and he forgets to do something.’
(Jozef reads out another question.)
What is this?
”A friend of ours dreams every night about his work of twenty years ago,“ that just comes with it, madam, ”when he was still a subordinate.
At the moment he has already been sick for a year, totally exhausted.
My sincere thanks in advance.
A friend of ours dreams every night about his work of twenty years ago, when he was still a subordinate.”
But before he became ill, got into a state, was he, was he then perhaps his own boss, madam?
(Lady in the hall): ‘Yes.’
But now he still dreams all the time about that time?
(Lady in the hall): ‘Every day.’
About that time?
(Lady says something else.)
And he does not understand what it is?
(Lady in the hall): ‘No.’
That being a boss made him sick, do you see?
It went over his knob, you see.
We may not say that: over his little head.
But society says: it went over his knob, little head.
(To someone in the hall): Come in, madam.
Are you looking for someone, madam, surely not?
Are you looking for someone here?
(Lady in the hall): ‘No, it will be okay.’
Oh, it will be okay.
Well, I too hope that it will be okay.
(Jozef continues with the question.)
But now he is totally exhausted.
And do you now wish to know why that man always just dreams about his youth again?
And he is exhausted and ill.
(Lady in the hall): ‘He is now twenty-nine ...’
And ill.
(Lady in the hall): ‘Yes.’
Look, madam, this is a nice phenomenon, how it should be done, and how it should not be done.
Because you can be ill, you can experience a break-down physically.
Because we do not need to brag about that.
A human being can work, work, work, work, and then he does not need to be ill; and if you are not strong, then it will go over your head if you go on.
If the human being could figure out his body then he would take it easy.
But that time when he did not have so much to think about now speaks in him, the normal part.
He can already have begun there with working until things went over his head, of course; but this, when he was still a pupil, or when he took it easier, and absorbed everything in him more calmly, that time now speaks to him.
And that is the normal part.
The abnormal part is that he lives in a state in which he has overworked himself, and has run himself down physically and spiritually.
And that is presently waging a battle inside him.
Who wants to be right?
That good, normal part, now speaks to the destruction, and he now experiences that.
This is why he dreams of his state from that time.
Do you know that man?
And if you have a good talk with him, what will you talk about with him now?
What can you teach him now?
How can you cure that man, that he, that torment from that dreaming ...
That torment is still there.
Because it can help him: you can give him what he experiences in his sleep by talking.
What will you begin with now?
(Lady in the hall): ‘ ...(inaudible), but he does not want to.’
He does not want to.
You see, if you now talk to this human being ...
If I had that human being, and I was to treat that human being, he would come to me, I would have to cure him, then I would say: ‘Sir, then we will first see where the faults lie.’
(Lady in the hall): ‘He is very self-centred.’
Yes, there you have it already, and then he thinks: just go ahead.
And if he then remains self-centred and he wants ... with those things ...
That is a pure psychological analysis for the character, and the psychologist can also do that and the psychologist also does it.
If the doctor wants to cure that man, or that woman, then the doctor says: ‘First we will see where the faults are.’
And there and there ...
And then he starts to tell.
And then that psychologist says: ‘Stop!
There is a fault there!’
And then we must first explain that fault away.
‘You should have acted like that.’
To the moment in which he lives, and then you can go back twenty, thirty years, and experience every day, and then we will explain that to him, and then the man will know himself.
Then he takes the good part and the wrong part, and he analyses that; and then you can free him from that pressure on his life of feeling.
And the psychologist must do it like that otherwise he cannot help the patient.
And if they are overstrained, then he also gives a bit of medicine in order to calm those nerves, but that is all camouflage, and that is taking the human being from dry land into the ditch, because now the nervous system is numbed, and he becomes sleepy and now he cannot even think.
If you ... the seriousness of the fault ...
Is it not like that then, is that not simple then?
We do something wrong and we go round worrying about it and we make it okay, is it then not suddenly gone?
But then we are much easier from inside.
That is the remorse for the human being.
(Lady in the hall): ‘Yes, but he also has everything wrong each time.’
What did you say?
(Lady in the hall): ‘He is afraid that each time the fault ...’
Madam, that man’s knees are irrevocably giving way.
He is already trembling, he has no hold anywhere.
You have a hold.
How does the human being’s knees give way?
What is your hold?
What is your hold in society, in this life?
(Lady in the hall): ‘The spiritual part?’
Yes, the spiritual part, madam, but then we will not have made it.
Now we go to something else.
Do you know it again?
(Lady in the hall): ‘Cosmic power.’
No, you are not there yet, you see.
No, you are not there yet.
No, it is not that.
(Lady in the hall): ‘Fatherhood and motherhood.’
Fatherhood and motherhood?
Yes, that is very easy.
(Hall): ‘Self-confidence.’
Self-confidence they say here.
Own will, is it, madam?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘ ... with society.’
What did you say?
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘To live in harmony with society.’
Who said that there?
Sir, harmony in society.
We do wrong, we do this, but then we have ...
We just pile up remorse, remorse, remorse, remorse until it goes over our life of feeling and the personality, and then we no longer have any hold anywhere, sleep gone, peace gone, there is no longer harmony, lights have gone, no more contacts: we feel broken, sir.
Have you never talked to a real thief, sir, a human being with remorse, have you never met that?
You should hear, madam, then you will get a confession as if God is confessing.
Have you never been able to weep for a man who had remorse, he says: ‘Oh, if I only I could make amends for it, if only I could make amends for it’?
Sir, you should hear those poor murderers in prison, in order to make amends, to make amends.
I told you last year: in Rotterdam, in the prison. Someone had written about the women’s prison. And then I wrote to that lady, that governor.
I say: ‘Madam, I have spiritual books.
Can you perhaps put a few books there for your poor women?’
‘Yes, gladly.’
I went there with Mr van Straaten, we gave them two lots of volumes, I say: ‘Let them read.’
‘Do you want ...?’
I say: ‘If it is necessary, I will also give the explanations.’
‘Also lectures?’
I say: ‘Yes, madam, you will get lectures.’
‘And from whom?’
I say: ‘These books are mine.
Here you have my youth, and here you have this, if you want to read that ...
Those people will get, they must ...
You can ... with a pen the spiritual remorse in you ... you cannot read any novels for that purpose where it is about a fairground and all those other things.
Those people there, those poor women are in a battle, that is more than horrible.’
Then she says: ‘Oh, how wonderful that is.’
I told you, didn’t I?
I say: ‘Perhaps we will have a lecture in Rotterdam in the prison this winter.’
Madam, after eight months a letter came: Yes, would you like to come because there are people here who have looked into it ...
But, they want to ask you questions.
I say: ‘Oh yes, your minister surely?
Your Catholic?’
I say: ‘Madam, you are not keeping your word, governor.
You should have given those books.
You said: “I will give them”, but you are talking nonsense, madam.’
The governor of the women’s prison in Rotterdam.
I say: ‘Madam, you should have kept your word, but you keep your damnation, that is it.’
Priest, minister, were in the middle of that.
But those poor children there, I could have taken away their remorse if I tell them that they ...
Because those people are there, and are there and they no longer dare to look at God, because, oh God, if they just look upwards ...
And there were three intellectuals there, a baroness, and a countess, they had committed murders there and all those other things.
There were twenty, for life.
And that lifeless minister and priest were in the middle of that again, but mainly the bible with damnation.
And then of course the minister ...
Because that is still our parliament, the bible.
And now you cannot reach those poor buggers.
I say: ‘Madam, give me the chance to talk to those children then I will take away that remorse.’
For life.
I say: ‘Madam, give me the chance.
If I devote myself, madam, will I get ten of them out then?
Then I will stay in prison for life for those people.
I will do it, if I get ten of them ...
For seven I cannot do it.
But I must get ten out.
If I get ten of those ...
I am finished, madam, you are finished, but they are still not finished, and I would give them my life, so that they can aim at society again and that they could begin with a new life again, and that they could build up something good, I would give my life for that.
And then I will go for some five, perhaps even twenty, thirty years, as old as I must become, I will do time for life for those people.
And then you will certainly not hear me weeping.
I want to do that.
And then I will help the human being.
Have you ever thought about that?’
I say: ‘Madam, may I buy out five?
Then I will go in there.’
‘Hahahaha’, then she started to laugh.
‘Do you find it strange, madam?’
When I started to talk, they had tears.
But the minister is in the middle of it again.
And the lecture will not go ahead.
Those poor murderers there, those murderesses, you should see those poor children there, I did not see them, but it was in the paper, they walk there, walking remorse.
Madam, if I get the message tonight at twelve o’clock: ‘Mr Rulof, I accept it, you will get it, ten will go out.’
I will say: ‘They will begin with a new life.’
And then I will stay in that prison for the whole of my life, laughing for those people.
But then tomorrow I will already be writing books.
I will shout: ‘Hoorah, I will give lectures just now.’
But now the minister is in the middle of it.
Those people walk round with their remorse, will not get out.
Sir, do you know what kind of gnawing, what kind of horror that is?
But I have told my story now, and now I have forgotten the first one, because I went too far off track.
What were we actually talking about?
Do you remember?
If you do not know, I will just continue.
But I have forgotten something.
I asked a question.
And then I said: it is close by, then it was not there.
(People talk at the same time.)
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘You have replied.’
Did I reply?
Good, if I answered it, I will continue, but I must absorb it consciously, otherwise I will not sleep tonight.
If I go home and I have a question here, and I have not treated it according to the laws, then that question wakens me, master Alcar does not need to do it, but then that question keeps me awake.
And then I say: ‘Yes, I promise you it, I promise you it.’
And then I would want, people, to have you all here again quickly during the night in order to finish that question, and then I will go to sleep peacefully.
Because I cannot sleep then, because that question rules me and it wants to be answered.
Spiritual laws react like that.
If I do not treat a question well, I would treat it nonchalantly; sir, then I will get a beating, even sharper than the prison, because that cuts in immediately and eliminates me and tortures me.
And you will also get all of that.
But now that remorse of such people.
To remove such a state from the human being, that is not possible, sir, because the minister is there, our prisons are still biblical.
People do not think there: there is a human being.
But I got one female admirer, she wrote, and that lady, that child reads all the books.
So I still got one female admirer from those prisons anyway with our efforts.
I say: ‘Madam, just send the books back.’
‘Yes’, she said, ‘she has already read half’, a woman of forty-four years old, I did not see her, but she has already read half, ‘and when she has finished all of them, then you will get them back.’
But the rest can drop dead.
The rest must just look and see whether they can get rid of that remorse.
And, sir, madam, I remember, it is coming back now, it concerns that man - and it also concerns those people - if you can explain that now, can explain to that patient where he began with all that speed, and that hurrying and that wild stuff, then you can cure him by means of the word.
‘And those people’, that governor said, ‘they cannot be cured, they are broken for their whole life.’
And for the minister they are eternally damned.
And that is our society, they are eternally damned.
They did something.
And there is no God of love.
Books out again!
Because the priest and the minister think: they are occult books, they may not read them.
But then they would have known precisely that God does not hit them, and that God does not damn them, but that they can soon make amends for that in another organism - and they give the soul a new organism as mother - and then they would be rid of their remorse at least.
Now you must ... that toil there ...
This is why I said: ‘Have you never spoken to a human being who has remorse?’
That child yonder said: ‘I still doubt myself.’
My God, my God, if you already say to yourself: ‘I am still doubting and I would like to see myself differently’, madam, then you are already a hundred percent consciously busy.
Because another person still hits and kicks and throw and curses the masses.
They do not accept any fault if they are wrong.
The faults are talked away, do not touch those personalities.
I have a lady, she says: ‘I am just a big bitch and a dope, I am just a wretch, I know nothing.’
But how rich is that human being when the human being already does not have pedestals for himself.
But it is that, isn’t it?
And go and look, go into society.
(Lady in the hall): ‘Mr Rulof?’
Yes, madam?
(Lady in the hall): ‘I worked in the prison, and then I also gave them your books, ...(inaudible) then wanted to read.’
Yes, I also did it, I read that there.
I say: ‘Give me the chance.’
I wanted ...
I will still free you irrevocably, ladies and gentlemen, in all of this life.
You would not get any more lectures from me if I was allowed to visit the prisons.
Then you would no longer need it for that matter, would you?
Then I would go off here in the Netherlands, because we have a great deal of little prisons where people stay and they would like to know.
‘Oh oh oh, can you give lectures?’
‘No, madam, the government is still behind it.
We still have the bible, and the bible forbids us to do these things.’
So that is all religious.
The prisoner who is there, he is not asked how he thinks and feels inside.
But no metaphysical academic comes there yet.
The minister is there and: ‘Yes, God ...’
Yes, now the laws are explained.
Then a poor old man there says, who has already been there for thirty years: ‘Dirty cad, do you also wish to tell me that God will hit me even deeper into my misery?’
They are bothered by that, day and night in darkness, and also that darkness in that soul, in that spirit.
That is bad.
That is bad.
That is so bad.
I will not enter there.
I am powerless before such bandits, those ministers, those priests, they are dirty spiritual bandits who kick the human being even deeper into his misery.
Did you think that there is a human being in the world who consciously just like that, because that human being has a great time and fun, kills, murders the human being?
Did you think that those women who walk round there ...
I find it even a hundred thousand times worse for a mother than for a man.
If a man gets angry there and he hits out wildly ...
A boy who did not get a girlfriend, and just chopped off that girl’s head, and he is there now.
That same journalist wrote ...
He says, that governor says: ‘He is here.’
‘Where is that boy during that and that time, from 1917, 1918, who murdered that girl there and there, is he also here?’
‘Yes’, the governor says, ‘he is walking round here.’
He is already, how long ago is that now?
Seventeen years ago?
In 1917, 1918, that happened here in Holland.
It is about twenty, twenty-five years ago.
He says: ‘Then I started to look at those people.’
The governor says: ‘There he is.
Yes, it is him.
He is now fifty.’
He says: ‘Is that him?’
And then there was another boy there, he had also raped a woman, they also gave him life imprisonment.
And then the governor says: ‘No, he is there, with that squint cap, that is him.’
What a drama.
But I do not find it as bad for a man as for a mother.
Those poor mothers, those women who are imprisoned there, sometimes they also have a baby at home.
And that terrible harsh empty world of a governess like that and the judge and our parliament, who are just merciless there.
Do you already have the financial means too?
They want to do that good; they throw millions away.
And then they want the human being to give his ten cent pieces and twenty-five cent pieces.
Listen - have you not read that in ‘The Fatherland’? - here in the children’s’ homes where children are who no longer have any parents ... and children who are discarded there just like that, children who are bored to death, who look squint because they have nothing, and nothing, and nothing, and nothing?
Now they get: who has this?
And who has a garment?
And who has that?
Madam, are you helped by that?
While we throw away millions, millions; and for a poor little mite of eighteen months there is not even paternal and maternal care.
That was in ‘The Fatherland.’
(Gentleman in the hall): ‘Well well.’
That is so terrible, and that is very bad, and they are also ashamed.
Now they begin: they do not know.
But now you should go to the prison, where the human being lives with spiritual remorse, and spiritual longing to get to know God; because an indifferent person who is not yet there, he sits there: ‘It doesn’t matter to me.
Go away with your God’, they cannot be reached.
But there are hundreds and thousands who feel that torment and torture every day; and you, and I, cannot reach them because the minister kicks them even deeper into the ground.
It is true, sir.
And the governess said: ‘Yes, just come.’
I say: ‘For that wretch who wrote about that?’
I say: ‘Has he read the books?’
I say: ‘I do not intend to convince your court - I do not get the opportunity for that - and that gentleman from the paper not at all, and Jan the minister neither, and the priest, because they will laugh right in my face.
What kind of frills are they?
Madam, give me the chance to be able to talk to your twenty lifers, and I will inspire them.
I will also make them happy if it is necessary.’
But I do not get the chance, it will not go ahead because the minister is in the middle of it.
Our Lord ...
Watch out, if that fellow, for a moment, soon comes ‘behind the coffin’, then a club will be waiting for him.
Then that same minister will get a beating of its own accord as the human being cannot beat.
Our Lord will not violate those wretches.
But those ministers and those priests damn the human being even deeper in his misery, and torture spiritually even deeper, they will get their beating, madam.
And Our Lord does not do that, but their own ignorance does that, that is just as insane as that man who races along the road at a hundred and sixty-five kilometres an hour, and that man with twenty-seven languages in which he succumbed, it is all one law, one misery, one torture; and that is society.
Do you have any other questions?
If I hear that then I will cry myself to death for those people, but you are powerless.
I would leave you all in the lurch if you would say ...
What would I now ...
Ask me what I would prefer to do?
You see, then I will lock myself up and then I will save ten of them.
I will say: ‘ ...(inaudible) if you promise me, if you really promise me to want to go and serve, then I will do life long for you: I will go to prison.’
That is the way which Our Lord taught us, and for which He actually came to the earth; which He did not die for, because we murdered Him.
But what do we people do?
We take those people, those poor people, those poor mothers, we also take away the one possession and existence and thinking, and then we also damn them for eternity, because: they will not get out of that hell; they are murderers.
A murderer is never forgiven, do you not know that?
Could you not do them an injury?
(To the sound technician): Is it time, sir?
Ladies and gentlemen, on Sunday morning Master Zelanus will talk about the expanding universe.
Was I able to give you something this evening?
(Hall): ‘Yes indeed.’
But on Sunday morning the masters will speak, because Jozef Rulof is a big stupid oaf.
Sleep well, and see you on Sunday morning.
Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for your benevolent attention.
(There is clapping.)